NOT in the Name of Islam! Lal Masjid & Hafsa Brigade Revisited
Posted by: Admin on: July 4, 2007
- In: History| Islam| Muhammad (saw)| Muslim Life| My writings| News| Pakistan| Politics
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I had previously written about the Hafsa Brigade and the Lal Masjid which generated a lot of debate. Read previous here and here.
I think the recent happenings in Islamabad , the clashes between the Lal masjid brigade and the rangers has further proved the point that what the Lal Masjid and the Hafsa brigade is doing is not the part of Islam, it is not jihad. Infact it goes against the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad saw.
What do they have to say about women being injured and being taken to the hospital carried by Na Mahram men? You can see such a picture in the dawn paper today and it was also broad casted on TV live. A burqa clad women lifted by a man taken to hospital?
Does Islam permit putting women in the fire line so they are man handeled by police, beaten up, injured and taken to hospitals by na mahram men? No!
Can a muslim under the banner of Jihad forcefully try to occupy state property, NO, can they take up arms and start firing, without thinking who gets killed or injured? No
According to todays Dawn News, 10 people are dead and more than 150 injured. The dead include innocent journalists and passerbys. Is this Jihad? Absolutely Not!
Do they know how strict the rules for Jihad are?
The Sahaba were not allowed to attack civilians, were not allowed to even attack people without weapons. They were not even allowed kill their enemies if they read the Kalima.
One sahabi, i have forgotten the name, was fighting a pagan during a battle and he over came that pagan. That pagan, due to fear of death recited the Kalima. The sahabi said to him you just recited the kalima to save your life so he killed the pagan. Hearing this Prophet saw was extremely angry with that sahabi.
This shows how strict the guidelines for jihad are. We can not apply hadiths of the prophet without first seeing how the sahaba applied those hadiths in their life.
“Stop evil with your hands” – is the backbone of the hafsa and the lal masjid brigade. They are using it to justify all these actions.
But if this is what the hadith is telling us to do, then why dont i see examples of sahabas attacking the pagans of Makkah, attacking the leaders of Makkah, occupying their properties and kidnapping women.
No where do you find such examples in the seerah of Rasool Allah. This is not Islam.
Lal Masjid and Hafsa Girls do Not represent Islam.
42 Responses to "NOT in the Name of Islam! Lal Masjid & Hafsa Brigade Revisited"
[...] Not in the Name of Islam! Lal Masjid & Hafsa Brigade Revisited [...]
July 4, 2007 at 1:14 pm
Javeria – But if this is what the hadith is telling us to do, then why dont i see examples of sahabas attacking the pagans of Makkah, attacking the leaders of Makkah, occupying their properties and kidnapping women.
Adeel – No point of talking this again. Its already covered in the previous posts you mentioned above.
July 4, 2007 at 2:22 pm
How many more innocent people will die just for the sake of trying to legitimise Mr. Musharraf’s inherently illegitimate rule? This whole affair seems orchestrated by ISI to distract people’s attention away from the political imbroglio related to the CJP’s suspension. And of course Musharraf doesn’t want to leave any stone unturned in his mission to convince Uncle Sam of the false choice that, its either Musharraf or the mullahs.
July 4, 2007 at 2:47 pm
blame for all this chaos goes to Mushy ..operation would be last option to opt for …im not saying who is right or wrong but any person who has died ,lal masjid students,rangers or media ..government is responsible for all this..bush mentality by killing or bombing matter would be resolved ,proven failed twice ..it never works or won’t work
July 4, 2007 at 4:33 pm
Are you willing to take a mubahala challenge about this issue?
If you are right and maulana abdul aziz is wrong then swear by Allah that you are right and that the curse of Allah be upon you if your are wrong.
July 5, 2007 at 11:12 am
This was a setup.
Such a disturbing site to see the masjid’s so called chief running away in a burqa.
This was one of the greatest setup by musharaf. The strategy was to divert the media from some other core issue and in return get recognition from US.
Has anyone heard the news about CJ tomorow? NO. Any news about the flood victims and the aid that’s coming for them?NO. Any news about the ref. against Imran Khan?NO. News that why Aamir Liaqat gave his resignation.
We’re in the world of lies, where people are like puppets.
July 6, 2007 at 9:51 am
Yeah, can be, can be any kind of dirty plot. But I know the students are honest, I am sure of this. And these students can still make the difference in future, whenever it will time.
Running away in Burqa was really disgusting. If all you said was real then you should have surrender like other students. He was talking about do or die. And he himself did that pathetic thing. It looks like a scheme, you are right. However, surrendering was a wise decision, if it was not the part of the scheme.
Furthermore, beside all the benefits you mentioned they would get another benefit that is, now onwards no student believe his teacher/guide. Their hopes died with this incident. And now they will not stand up again against any unjust government.
July 6, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Dear Brother Adeel,
Asaalam o alkeum,
I would just like to say a few things regarding your first comment.
You accused me of being rigid and not understanding your point of view. However, i can accuse you of the same thing since you are not understanding my point of view.
Muslims can have different points of views, however does this mean that you accuse them of having no emaan, beiing soul less and to top it all.. label them as murtids/ kafirs.
You compared me to Rushidie… is this what your knowledgeable Alims taught you to do to a fellow muslim, if he or she does not agree with you?
If i do not agree that what the Lal Masjid was doing was jihad.. since i dont find any evidence for it in the Quran and Sunnah and the Seerah…. Kidnapping, taking over government property, schools, raiding brothels, using women as shields…i do not agree that this constitutes Jihad. So will you label me a Kafir? Rushdie? murtid? Did Allah give you the right to label your Muslims brothers and sisters as kafirs?
You further said:
“Now, I am understanding why we are here. Actually thats the problem of having and reading books on your own. This kind of educated person is far more harmful then a uneducated person
Thats the problem with you folks after reading few books, you guys start thinking that you are the only one knows the thing. Others don’t know the sh*t about it. And accordingly, now you are about to tell them how strict are the rules of Jihad. We welcome, JAVERIA, the only living person who know Islam well.”
You made a statement accusing me that all my knowledge is bookish knowledge.. did you see that in a dream or what or are you used to making statements like that without knowing any facts?
You criticized and made fun of me that im the only living person knowing Islam. Why don’t you apply the same statement to your own self? There are many people and scholars who disagree with the strategy of Lal Masjid folks…im not the only one.
With what ever little knowledge I have, I have learned that there will be differences of opinions amongst muslims, however the right thing to do in such a situation is NOT insult,accuse and humiliate your opponent. Instead you should refer to the Quran and Sunnah to get your evidence… after that leave it to Allah.
As Allah Tala says in the Glorious Quran. Surah Nisa Verse 59:
4:59. “O you who believe! Obey Allâh and obey the Messenger (Muhammad SAW), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority. (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allâh and His Messenger (SAW), if you believe in Allâh and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination.”
July 6, 2007 at 2:23 pm
@ everybody
Yes i agree with Omar that the entire running away scene was very humiliating and it definitely seems like a setup…
However I strongly condemn the way PTV treated Molana Abdul Aziz Sahab in a very disrespectful and a humiliating way.
His interview was shown all over the world and it started with him wearing the burqa and the veil, which he was later commanded to remove. He had to keep on wearing the lower black garment and the entire interview was conducted standing.
This is an extremely disgusting way of treating any body.. Especially a practicing Muslim with a beard. I do not agree with what ever he did or his strategy, but that does not mean he should be humiliated like this.
Prophet Muhammad saw used to give the best treatment to even the kafir prisoners.
Islam has been the biggest casualty in this entire episode. Jokes about molvis, burqas and islam are being casually shared. Women in burqas and men in beards are now being targeted and made fun of… this happened before but is now on the extreme. This is an extremely sad and a painful situation. Islam has been ridiculed again.
July 6, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Sad, sad, sad.
I refuse to comment here because apparently some people here are getting personal and instead of presenting their views they’re trying to enforce it on each other, which is definitely wrong.
We need to learn humility, temperament and patience before participating on such forums where such delicate issues are discussed. We shouldn’t be acting as if it is because of personal differences that we are here, not because anything’s wrong with whatever’s going on in Pakistan.
Regards,
H.Q.
July 6, 2007 at 7:56 pm
We should care/think about the casualty. Muslim rulers are trying to show that ISLAMIC sharia is what they don’t want.
I preferred that the scholars of lal mosque should adobe a better strategy to resolve it. They can deliver speeches to the ARMY out side the lal mosque and first discuss this with other scholars.
We have to change the minds of ARMY generals so they can become Slave of ALLAH and make a U turn towards ISLAMIC values.
May ALLAH swt make us good Practicing MUSLIM and help our modern Muslim brothers so they can understand ISLAM and practice it.
July 7, 2007 at 11:04 am
@Adeel
Bro, you’ve lost it totally.. While I believe your intentions may be good but some of the worst things have been and are done with the best of the intentions… And good intentions alone do not justify anything.
Firstly you ought to be ashamed of yourself !!
What right have you to talk about “sharam” when you are yourself publicly using obscenity in this blog !? Do you not see the hypocrisy in your own words ? This is so disgraceful.. you talk about your willingness to die to remove obscenity from Islamabad and yet you freely and shamelessly use obscenity and vulgur language in your comments.
Your act is all the more deplorable and vulgar because you have used this vulgarity publicly in a girls blog !!! Do you really have no shred of decency in you ?
And you do it all in the name of Islam… Charming..absolutely charming..
If this is what supposedly educated followers of lal masjid are like than I shudder at the thought of what those hundreds of uneducated brainwashed followers of this burqa wearing molwee must be like !!
And while on the topic of hypocrisy, did anyone notice how often the molana abdul aziz has publicly lied !? The guy first claimed there are only a few rifles in the masjid and you could clearly see guys using sophisticated weapons and even hand gernades from inside the lal masjid.
As far as his disgrace is concerned, he has fully earned it this man has misused and discredited Islam. This guy who brainwashed thousands of innocent youth into a misinterpretation of Islam only for his own self glorification. If he had even a shred of shame or iman, he would never have agreed to appearing like that on TV. The shameless way in which he did appear on TV and the ease with which he talked shows what a hypocrite he is.
I feel sorry for the thousands of these brainwashed youth. Government must set up camps to educate the surrendering youth in the real teachings of Islam.
July 7, 2007 at 11:15 am
1-Jo Masajid per FIRING krey usey kya kaha jayega??ALLAH tala k nazdeek Zameen per sab se achi jaga MASAJID hain,jinhoney unhein Aabaad kya ,unhoney ALLAH k gher ko Aabaad kya..aur jisney us per Firing ki,usey Giraaya..usne ALLAH k Aazaab ko Apnaya..
2-Why BlogAdmin Dont Looking at the other Aspect.???Lal Masjid ppl asked govt to rebuilt the Masajid..htey destroyed(ASTAGHFIRULLAH)..is it wrong to ask for this??
3-EK Sharaee Adalat,sharaee Hukoomat..Shariyat Naafiz krney ka Mutaaliba Her Musalmaan per zaroori hay..Islam hay hi Shairyat..aur JO IS SE INKAAR KREY WOH??????apne Imaan ki Khair manaaye
4-MEDIA k ghulaam hogaye hain SAB..what TV shows..Ppl Think k Its RitE!No Matter what the reality IS??Laal Masjid case mein Media walon ko allow nhi tha k masjid k qareeb jain,they use to b there almost 2km away from the MASJId..Jab Hazrat Maulana Saheb Dbh ki giriftaari hui to US WAQT NO MEDIA PERSON WAS THERE TO SEE,WHETHER HE IS IN BURQA OR NOT..woh burqey mein giriftaar nhi huey..laikin baad mein GOVT ne unhein Burqa Pehnaya gaya…iska saboot madaris k Talibe elm hain,jin se mera raabta hay..GOVT LIER!!PAKKI LIER!!jo apney 6 FT KI BODY PER ISLAM NAAFIZ NHI KR SAKTA ,woh kya khaak kuch kr sakeygA????ISLAMABAD KO ACTUALLY ISLAM-FREE state banaana hay..thats wat theyr eally want!
http://www.divshare.com/image/1157088-46a –> check this image,see NO BURQA…aur PTV ko interview detey huey BURQA zabrdasti pehna kr laya gaya hay.
http://www.arabherald.com/index.php/ct/7/
July 7, 2007 at 11:33 am
Aleem, I completely agree with the fact that Abdul Aziz had ulterior motives and he used the strength of the students to achieve his aims. What a loser!
Regards,
H.Q.
July 7, 2007 at 11:34 am
and oh yes,,,whatever happened to the “over 300 basharat” that molana abdul aziz claimed to have received. ?? There are only two possibilities here:
a)The molana lied. There was never any so called “basharat”. If this is the case. This so called molana has attributed a lie toward the Holy prophet(PBUH) ..! Shall we ask the molana what is the punishment under sharia for such an act ?…
b) If there really was any basharat and the molana did believe what he was saying to be true, then he should have stayed and died there. Yet he chose to wear a burqa and try escaping with women… What does that say about his iman then ??
In this case what is the punishment under sharia for a man who disobeys a direct command of the Holy prophet (PBUH).
Maybe a follower of lal masjid can explain…?
July 9, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Amazing no one replied to original questions. But yes you guys got my legs to pull because of obscene language. Now besides my profane language. Please try to answer these and take it as the matter is not unveiled right now. I have edited the thing.
Javeria – I had previously written about the Hafsa Brigade and the Lal Masjid which generated a lot of debate.
Me – But you didn’t understand even after that.
Javeria – I think the recent happenings in Islamabad , the clashes between the Lal masjid brigade and the rangers has further proved the point that what the Lal Masjid and the Hafsa brigade is doing is not the part of Islam, it is not jihad. Infact it goes against the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad saw.
Me – How?
Javeria – What do they have to say about women being injured and being taken to the hospital carried by Na Mahram men?
Me – Do you wait for a mehram to pick up the body if some accident happen on the road? Its illogical.
Javeria – You can see such a picture in the dawn paper today and it was also broad casted on TV live. A burqa clad women lifted by a man taken to hospital?
Me – So?? Where is the problem
Javeria – Does Islam permit putting women in the fire line so they are man handeled by police, beaten up, injured and taken to hospitals by na mahram men? No!
Me – No, not for all these reasons but Islam permits women to do Jihad. And I don’t think they all were there for these reasons.
Javeria – Can a muslim under the banner of Jihad forcefully try to occupy state property. No
Me – So you think its about property.
Javeria – can they take up arms and start firing, without thinking who gets killed or injured? No
Me – So you think they started firing without any reason? Don’t you know why rangers were enforced there. You are caring about injury and death of dead bodies? Do you really think that the people of pakistan are alive? Extremely sorry, they are already dead and who are alive, they want to live in islam in true sense, and for living in islam they are fighting.
Javeria – According to todays Dawn News, 10 people are dead and more than 150 injured. The dead include innocent journalists and passerbys. Is this Jihad? Absolutely Not!
Me – So, you mean they are sole responsible. Government can not be held responsible. At time of karachi riots you were not sure who to blame, but here you are quite sure. Amazing!!
Javeria – Do they know how strict the rules for Jihad are?
Me – Please don’t think you are the only one knows the thing.
Javeria – One sahabi, i have forgotten the name, was fighting a pagan during a battle and he over came that pagan. That pagan, due to fear of death recited the Kalima. The sahabi said to him you just recited the kalima to save your life so he killed the pagan. Hearing this Prophet saw was extremely angry with that sahabi.
Me – Not related.
Javeria – This shows how strict the guidelines for jihad are.
Me – Is it? Where?
Javeria – “Stop evil with your hands” – is the backbone of the hafsa and the lal masjid brigade. They are using it to justify all these actions.
Me – They are doing quite right. If you don’t stop evil in Paksitan, then where else on the earth you will do that. US, Netherlands, no no, Denmark. . .. Am I right?
Javeria – No where do you find such examples in the seerah of Rasool Allah. This is not Islam. Lal Masjid and Hafsa Girls do Not represent Islam.
Me – Can you tell me from seerah how to fight a tyrant governer/president?
July 9, 2007 at 2:37 pm
And I apologize to Aleem and Javeria both for the language. Actually, I couldn’t stand illogical things and it becomes unbearable when I get these things from your kind of pals. But I am not justifying my mistake here. Please pardon me for the things.
And now it taught me how the valid points become invalid by using obscene language.
Thanks I learnt one more thing. It is very right keh “Jo hota he achchhe ke liye hota he”.
July 9, 2007 at 2:57 pm
@ Aleem
Firstly, I didn’t find any other better word. Jaisa society samajhti he ghalat ke khilaf initiative lene walon ko main ne woh bata diya. Ab society aisa samajhti he is mein mera qasoor naheen he.
Secondly, few words have different meanings and different usages. Like
Sucker – (Meaning) a person or thing that sucks.
– (Usage) any person or thing: He’s one of those smart,
handsome suckers everybody likes.
Pissed – (Meaning) to urinate.
– (Usage) to anger
Same goes with the word I used. That means ‘fool’, and you know that.
Thridly, It should not be considered obscene when discussing such things. I haven’t said that word to anyone as an offense. Or if you think that I said then you will know I am representing my kind of people with that word.
Finally, I admit that that was not the good words to use anyway.
Thanks for making me realize that.
July 9, 2007 at 4:00 pm
@ Javeria –
You didn’t understand me at all.
Where I said you are like Rushdie. On just one place where you turned illogical and hundred percent repling on the media news.
Can you please re-read your post and then edited version of my former comments. I hope you would be able to understand.
For example, You said, “This is not Islam. Lal Masjid and Hafsa Girls do Not represent Islam”. Don’t you think here you are not speaking your opnion, to the contrary you are imposing your views. You should have written something like, “To me, this is not Islam. In my opinion, Lal Masjid and Hafsa Girls do Not represent Islam”. That would have been acceptable.
You might have found that I am imposing my point of view on you in return.
One other thing I found annoying is, you didn’t gain anything from last two discussions.
None the less, I am extremely sorry for my that harsh comments.
July 12, 2007 at 7:00 am
@Adeel
Asalam o alekum,
Its alright.. no big deal. apology accepted. I also apologize for my comments if they hurt your feelings.
The first rule of an argument, always keep your cool… the minute you lose your cool, you lose the argument.
Please listen to the Audio Lecture By Dr. Israr Ahmed
which has all the answers to your queries….
http://www.tanzeemarchive.org/tanzeemeislami/Misc/lal-masjid.ra
Answered not by Javeria …who knows nothing…
but by the greatest scholar of Pakistan himself. Dr.Israr Ahmed
He appreciates their intentions and their Khuloos and Ikhlaas. However he disagrees with their methodology of using force on civilians committing sins.
He has given you the answer for how to overthrow the tyrant government without doing things against Islam and Sunnah. (Such as kidnapping,burning, occupying property…)
July 12, 2007 at 8:27 am
He is agreed with musallah baghawat but with adequate strength.
July 12, 2007 at 4:18 pm
SHAMELESS ARMY
Army started the operation at 4.00 A.M according to ISPR.That’s exactly the time of FAJR AZAAN.Army shamelessly stormed the MASJID when people were praying Fajr.
The operation has been named SILENCE .Mush wants to silence who speaks against him.Rasullulah said
THE GREATEST JIHAD IS TO SPEAK THE TRUTH AFTER UNJUST RULER.
Army silenced the ones who spoke against MUSH.
Some personnels of army who were injured were seen in pathetic condition .One of them was lying on the stretcher and after every 5 seconds he shouted ATTACK and CODE NAMES of OPERATION.Some say MEDIA was also not allowed to enter hospital as unusual number of soldiers has this kind of DISORDER.Allah has set them as IBRAT(example for others to learn)
SHAMELESS MEDIA
Media’s partiality and tilt towards secularism was clearly exposed.Before the MASSACRE Media was spreading propaganda that CHILDREN ARE FLOWERS NOT SHEILDS.After the killing of Flowers Media shamelessly kept SILENT.
Ghazi also said that he would only surrender infront of ULEMA and CAMERA so that people should come and see How much weapons do we have .How much foreigners are present????
SHAMELESS POLITICIANS
No one among the politicians was ready to condemn the attack.ABDUL RASHHED GHAZI SHAHEED said in his last talk that the political Ulema(MMA) wanted himto bow down and they played a negative role.He also said that many Ulemas bowed down to government.
THE LIE
Meanwhile the ARMY is also hiding the number of casualties .Many parents complain that government has neither handed them dead body nor were their relatives in surrender camp.It also explains why Army is taking so long to finish operation they must be disappearing dead bodies.SOURCES SAY there could be as many as 500-800 CASUALTIES.
ISLAMABAD: Dead bodies are “everywhere” inside a radical Pakistani mosque raided by troops on Tuesday, a source inside the complex said by telephone.
A man who picked up one of top mosque cleric Abdul Rashid Ghazi’s mobile phones said those inside were under “massive bombing and gunfire. This is indiscriminate killing”.
“There is no contact with each other because no one can leave the rooms and basements. There are dead bodies everywere,” the witness added, declining to give his name as explosions and gunfire echoed in the background.
One of those killed was Ghazi’s elderly mother, who died of suffocation from smoke caused by blasts
July 12, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Many people call Ghazi Sb a terrorist. Analyzing all the situation. I want answers from a real scholar, Who we r? Muslims, Munafiqs or something else. Plz tell me that everyone says that Islam is very calm and moderate religion. My question is that in contrast of a so called muslim enemy (as one has clear opposite qualities in him like, Lieing, Bribes, Hate muslims, brothals, drinking etc etc.) be clear that i am not talking about other religions people here, I am talking about a number of people which have above said qualities but called as muslims like General Musharaf, If a true muslim takes a stand and to fulfill the islamic laws choose some harsh way against the so called muslims and then murdered by those muslims what we call him???. This is a very serious question plz i want a learned islamic scholar input here. I am so much depressed by the behavior of other muslims on forums.
Moreover what is a state or country w.r.t. ISLAM. Does a state or country law outscore the Islamic law in a society which have a name of (Islamic Republic But by name only) Can we shoot somebody which is against our so called state laws (Islamic State by Name only, All laws are not under Islam) and creating some effort to eliminate evils from Islamic society???
If a person could not take a harsh way like a doctor operating a patient when there is no other choice so What The Jehaad Really means in Islam. In what conditions Jihaad is possible and can we do the harsh things against so called muslims to take them back on right track???
As we in Pakistan have never really think into the Islam at Quantum Level. We assumes that Islam is a separate thing and this world life should not interfere into the religion principles. We pray five times but never touch true level of Emaan. We have all the evils according to Prophet Muhammad S.A.W sayings that a time will come at my ummah that they will become just a carbon copy of Bani- Israeil like one shoe resembles other shoe of the pair.
July 12, 2007 at 4:30 pm
I am reading Surah Baqra (Dr Israar Explanations). ALLAH says in this surah about previous muslim ummah (Bani-Israeil) Commulative evils.
And Muhammad (SAW) said that a time comes when my ummah will become a complete carbon copy of bani-Israheil in evils and also thinks that they are on the right path and Hell fire would not touch them because they are muslims.
according to this surah Most victims (are/will be) the religious scholars who hide the HAQ for their own benefits or fear. (The surah says that ALLAH will make their Heart like Stones).
My question is that what could one do against these so called muslims (Because Kafir is an open enemy but these evil people in society are hidden before the Tag of Muslims)
July 12, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Brothers i am very depressed my blood is on fire when i see these #slang removed by Admin# (Army people and Busharaf + Politicians to them Busharaf is God Nawazbillah), on TV chanting about Shaheed Ghazi sb.
And by reading the very First Surah in Quran -e- Majeed my depression climbs to its peak. Gahzi Sb got shahadaat that is for him only i couldn’t ever reach to his feet. But what about us brothers should we let forget the incident and find commodities in Islam to satisfy own own interests (Betraying ALLAH).
July 12, 2007 at 4:36 pm
@ Waqas..
Assalam o alekum,
No one is justifying what the government did. obviously what they did was definitely wrong.
It is their duty to remove evil, opression and injustice from the society, but they are the ones doing such things the most…
Dr. Israr calls such people Naam Nihad Musalman. i.e. Muslims only by name.
Listen to Dr. Israr’s lecture on Lal Masjid Operation. It will make a lot of things clear to you Inshallah that what is the right method to resist a tyrant government.
http://www.tanzeemarchive.org/tanzeemeislami/Misc/lal-masjid.ra
July 13, 2007 at 7:11 am
Yes, Waqas. Javeria is right. Here we have the difference of opinions. Ghazi himself didn’t said any Ulema anything that they are not supporting us or blah blah. He just said they are right in their opinion but I am not doing anything against Islam. They are supporting one way and I am the other. It happened before a few times. But it doesn’t really create any difference among us.
I have heard and read Dr. Israr Ahmed. His analysis is logical and well understood. But I don’t agree with him on this matter. His recommendations are not baseless. But I am not seeing any base to build hopes on. I still believe he is one of the great Muslim thinker of our time. I believe that Rasool (sallallah o alaih e wasallam) tried hard with dawah but he could really achieve the strength of majority thats the reason he migrated and even then first battle was fought with just 313 mans, not soldiers by profession. So, now if we think that we will achieve the strength of majority by Dawah, I don’t think so. We just need a similar strength but a little similarity in faith as well. I believe Abdul Rasheed Ghazi was the Muhsin, the highest level of muslim, and Dr. Asrar Ahmed is also having a strong faith. Now we should define a threshold. We should define the strength we need.
Waqas, I experienced similar kind of pain you experienced. I feel very sorry on the condition of Muslims. Indeed, Muslims are becoming ,or may be already became, carbon copy of Yahood save a few real muslims. Allah knows the best.
July 13, 2007 at 10:03 am
Waqas, may be because nobody is a learned scholar here. If you want an answer by an ordinary muslim then I would be more then please to give you an answer. But as you already mentioned you want the answer from a learned scholar, that thing is refraining me from answering.
July 13, 2007 at 10:42 am
Dear Brother Adeel And Sister Javeria
AOA,
Just one simple question (Its building grate pressure on my neurons now)
Lets assume that i am a bloody fauji (Brainwashed, actually have no brain i think) My boss (Lt G Arshad (Look at his bloody phitkari face depicting that he is a daily drinker)) Ordered me to Fire on Innocent people and a masjid and i said “YES SIR”, two type of consequences could occur after that, either other side muslims got killed by my firing or i got “shahadaat” by a reply 1 and 2 respectively.
1. After all the drama i myself assumes that i killed the terrorists spreading anarchy in my country “9-5 Routine bloody life which never even bother to thinks about islam” and proudly describes my achievement in society, So that the small heads diverts and agree to my thinking. What type of questions encounters me in or after my QABAR later at any stage.
2. If i got Shahadaat can i escape later on by saying that i dont know the real situtation and just performing my duty. My BOSS ordered me to do that so i did.
What about my status “Muslim, Kafir or even worse “Munafiq”
This is just for individual’s Hissab” No commodity should enter like politics, Duty(Naukari), State Law, Dunya etc. etc.
Plz tell me any schloar’s site where i can put all my questions
Thanx!
July 13, 2007 at 11:29 am
Thank you that my comments deleted ,,..but Miss or Mrs javeria how many mouth will be shup up…lets see the behaviour of Gov. pupets ……..
July 13, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Waqas – After all the drama i myself assumes that i killed the terrorists spreading anarchy in my country “9-5 Routine bloody life which never even bother to thinks about islam” and proudly describes my achievement in society, So that the small heads diverts and agree to my thinking. What type of questions encounters me in or after my QABAR later at any stage.
Adeel – Allah knows the best. Your question lies beyond the knowledge of any creature. There are few things/questions in this regard which are told. But the question particular to this case, no one knows other then Allah. I assume that you can rightly guess the questions not the exact but somewhere near.
Waqas – If i got Shahadaat can i escape later on by saying that i dont know the real situtation and just performing my duty. My BOSS ordered me to do that so i did.
Adeel – No chance of escaping there. None the less, you can’t deceive Allah.
July 13, 2007 at 9:24 pm
@ Najam
Asalam o alekum,
I dont know what you are talking about. Which comments have i deleted?
I have a comment from you on my other post.. the reflections one….
July 14, 2007 at 5:04 pm
It always helps to look at things from a broader angle and purely objective way.
Firstly we need to accept the fact that ours is a decadent society. There is corruption in every aspect of life including religion.
It is also a fact that in Pakistan religion has become a business and a very profitable one also. Many, possibly most of the religious schools are run as a “business”. They collect donations without any accountability. The guy who runs the madrassah is the god of the money that comes in. In many cases the reason why he is running the madrassah IS the money…
And to prove one’s religious authenticity, one must be a “fiery”speaker…Making lots of noise and no substance. Fuming against America is the biggest proof of one’s religiousity these days.. The second biggest proof of ones piety and religious credentials is fuming against “obscenity” in the society.
Talking against amreeeka and obscenity and CDS and videos when people in the country are dying of hunger, living under oppression of feudal lords, women being used as slaves and raped by powerful zameendar on regular basis, no electricity, no jobs, no water even..is a joke …in the name of religion…
When Rasool Allah salalAllah-o-alihay wasalm started to build the islamic society he didnt start with banning alcohol and prostitution or music. … He started with bringing love of Allah in people’s heart, then by bringing social justice and equality… Baning of alcohol, gambling and other vice came much later when every othe aspect of muslim society had reached maturity and even perfection…
The fact is that many molvees run madrassahs as a family business empire without accountability. Many of them are corrupt. They make noise on non-issues and blow hot and cold as if they had the pain of ummah as the only thing in their hearts. While the fact is much much different.
Why havent I heard these molvees ever talk against the biggest problem facing the country, the feudal system and social inequality ?? How many molvees came out on the street to protest the gang rape of mukhtaran mai ?
Who are you fooling ? What is this selective islam that you preach ?
And all these hypocrites molvees that are now taking out processions condeming the lal-masjid operation. They are doing politics on the dead bodies of the innocent they sent to grave by brainwashing them.
Why did they not go to islamabad and start these protests there when the action was about to start ? Maybe that would have stopped this sad event from happening. But hay,,that was just too dangerous… that would have actually meant doing something.
Atleast the brainwashed students who died had the courage and believed what they were doing to be right. Whereas most of the religious leaders are just plain hypocites and munafiqs.
So stop condeming the government and start condeming these selfish movless who have mislead masses for their personal gains in the name of religion.
These molvees did the same thing, they made fiery speeches and sent innocent impressionable youth to Afghanistan to die and themselves sat on their sofas in the drawing rooms counting all the donations they got in the name of jihad.
I can not say with certainity but all the indications are that both the ghazi brothers, the burqa wearing and the non-burqa wearing ones previously had a lot of government support. Government and army has always used molvees for its own purpose and discarded them when it suited the governement.
The ghazi bros were no angels. If u look objectively u will find so much corruption and lying in their doings that you would wish you had never heard of them…
Not all taliban style molvees are corrupt. Some are actually honest and really believe what they are doing to be the right thing. The example of these honest taliban molvees is like that of the monkey who hits his master’s head with a hammer to remove the bug from his master’s head.
Taliban have done more harm to islam than amreeka,israel and all the rest of supposedly enemies of islam combined.
Such is the sad state of affairs in our country.
Only Allah can decide who died as a shaheed and who died serving his own self.
Irfan Hussain of Dawn asks a very interesting question in todays DAWN.
“why, once seminary students had embarked on their lawless path six months ago, parents did not immediately flock to Islamabad to take their kids home. ”
http://dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm
Islam is the biggest casualty of this sad affair.
July 15, 2007 at 9:29 am
@Aleem
Asalam o alekum,
Yes i somewhat to do agree with you. Islam definitely has been the biggest casualty of this issue. Just think…how many people have been forced away from Islam. No woman would want to associate with burqa walis… many ppl have been stopped from studying the Quran..many ppl are so disgusted with religion now.. that the opportunity there was to bring people to Islam has greatly been reduced.
What is the greatest evil of our society? is it immorality? is it indeceny? is it drinking?
I feel the biggest evil of our society is Shirk. The second is injustice.
I have had a chance to move around in interior regions of Sindh and to see the “aqaid” of most of our Muslims of today.. believe it or not.. i have been shocked beyond everything the shirk people are doing in the name of Islam!
This i feel is the biggest evil.. the root of all the problems. There is NO emaan in muslims of today.. how can there be emaan when there is No Tauheed.
Ppl have made up their own versions that some Baba, some wali, some pir, some Ghous e Azam, or some other pious person will save them from the torment in the grave and will save them on the day of Judegement. No kidding.. some place certain things in graves, write names of their pirs and walis on the Kafan and firmly believe that these humans are omnipresent, they visit the graves and will save them there and take them into Jannah…
With this mindset… comes corruption.. Do anything.. do everything.. you have the security of the baba or the pir..do whatever you like.. your heaven is booked!
Shirk is the only sin which Allah tala will never forgive… All other sins .. even the major ones are forgiveable… except shirk.
sadly a HUGE majority of our Muslims are committing shirk openly…
Such people are not just in the interior.. but everywhere.. in cities, in your own khandan.. if you look hard enough. Just look for the painting and photos of their pirs hanging in their rooms towards whom they direct their duas!
go into the interior..ppl dont even know how to say the Kalimah.. let alone how to pray namaz or know how to keep themselves clean!
for them their landlord is god.. as he provides them with food and water and a place to live…
so the society needs to be rid of this evil before you will see emaan in any one.
For that you don’t need weapons and dandas..but you need to educate people and spread the Quran everywhere and stop fretting about nitty gritties…coz there is a bigger problem which requires immediate attention.
July 15, 2007 at 4:27 pm
@ Javeria – I would count Shirk in the same category of Injustice. Shirk is indeed a sort of Injustice. Hence, the only problem could present in any society is Injustice. We are quite fortunate that our religion has given us the perfect definition of Justice and having said that Islam also showed us the distinction between just and unjust. But we don’t really care.
@ Aleem – As a fact cheif of Army Staff or anyother leader doesn’t really go for battle until time comes. Do you know Umar razi allah o ta’ala unho sent Khalid Bin Waleed to Rome, Anzakiya, Damishq and few others. After that Khalid Bin Waleed divided the army and opted a leader among them. But Umar razi allah o ta’ala unho didn’t go anywhere in the battle to fight himself. It depends on the age, time, responsibilities, capabilties. We don’t know what Taliban really did or are doing but we know what is told by BBC, CNN, CNBC, PTV, GEO TV, ARY, ABC, Washington Post, Jerasulem Post, Times, etc. And I don’t believe and indulge in canned chatter.
July 15, 2007 at 9:58 pm
@ javeria,
Just as the ignorant un-islamic and misguided behaviour of some burqa wearing women, and some bearded guys does not mean one should start considering burq or the beard the source of evil. Similarly ignorant, un-islamic and misguided behaviour of some followers of a sufi/a wali- Allah/ an alim does not mean that the concept of “tasawuf” is to be blamed.
Just as some or many molvees actually misues, misinterpret and misguide their followers for their own personal benefits, similarly unfortunately many or most of the present day so called peers are frauds.
BUT that doesnt mean you should start blaming the teachings of tasawuf. Which are based on seerat, ahadith and teachings of Rasool Allah, salalAllaho alayhay wasalam.
What is needed is education, mass scale educational revolution. I bet the day whole country becomes educated, will be the last day of taliban and the last day of the shirk based misguided acts in Pakistan.
@adeel.
And where exactly do you get your news from? The “Taliban times” ? 
or do you go to the actual site always to personally see for yourself ?
I always take my news with a pinch of salt….but the basic facts usually are undeniable. And you can not hide away from the stupid acts of taliban… Or are you really saying that todays and yesterdays suicide bombing, killing army and other innocent persons were not by taliban ?
July 16, 2007 at 11:42 am
I don’t know if you will believe or not. But I believe if you want the truth you will definitely find it, newspapers are not the only source. I usually reach to the truth by reading quite a few subjects i.e. Islam, history, mathematics, logic, science, politics. Indeed, newspapers and news channels can play a small part as a compliment to those.
And yes you are right its actually “Taliban Times”. You have to be a TALIB OF TRUTH for receiving your copy of “Taliban Times”.
As Socrates idea states that, “No one can know the true of a form by looking or studying the object of that form. The one can merely know the true of that object not the true of that form. And one can not know the true of that object by studying the shadow of that object. Hence, the people who work on the reflections are on a third remove and so is their work.”
______”To read a newspaper is to refrain from reading something worthwhile. The first discipline of education must therefore be to refuse resolutely to feed the mind with canned chatter. – Aleister Crowley”___
_______”Trying to determine what is going on in the world by reading newspapers is like trying to tell the time by watching the second hand of a clock. – Ben Hecht”_____
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July 4, 2007 at 12:36 pm
Sharm tum ko magar naheen aati.
A very famous maxim,
“jo pehla patthar uthayega – woh tera muhsin kehlaayega”
But you folks changed it too,
“jo pehla patthar uthayega – woh ch**tiya kehlaayega”
Javeria – I had previously written about the Hafsa Brigade and the Lal Masjid which generated a lot of debate.
Me – But you didn’t understand even after that. Actually, you don’t want to. You don’t have enough courage to support the right.
Javeria – I think the recent happenings in Islamabad , the clashes between the Lal masjid brigade and the rangers has further proved the point that what the Lal Masjid and the Hafsa brigade is doing is not the part of Islam, it is not jihad. Infact it goes against the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad saw.
Me – How? It merely proves that you pakistani folks are soulless. You don’t feel pain of anything. You are quite happy with tyranny. You don’t have a little bit of Iman. I don’t know now what else can open your eyes.
Javeria – What do they have to say about women being injured and being taken to the hospital carried by Na Mahram men?
Me – You are nuts. Do you wait for a mehram to pick up the body if some accident happen on the road? Its illogical. Now, I am understanding why we are here. Actually thats the problem of having and reading books on your own. This kind of educated person is far more harmful then a uneducated person.
Javeria – You can see such a picture in the dawn paper today and it was also broad casted on TV live. A burqa clad women lifted by a man taken to hospital?
Me – So?? You remind me Ali Sina of faithfreedom.com
Javeria – Does Islam permit putting women in the fire line so they are man handeled by police, beaten up, injured and taken to hospitals by na mahram men? No!
Me – No, not for all these reasons but Islam permits women to do Jihad. And I don’t think they all were there for these reasons.
Javeria – Can a muslim under the banner of Jihad forcefully try to occupy state property. No
Me – So you think its about property. You are amazing like Rushdie here.
Javeria – can they take up arms and start firing, without thinking who gets killed or injured? No
Me – So you think they started firing without any reason? Don’t you know why rangers were enforced there. You are caring about injury and death of dead bodies? Do you really think that the people of pakistan are alive? Extremely sorry, they are already dead and who are alive, they want to live in islam in true sense, and for living in islam they are fighting.
Javeria – According to todays Dawn News, 10 people are dead and more than 150 injured. The dead include innocent journalists and passerbys. Is this Jihad? Absolutely Not!
Me – So, you mean they are sole responsible. Government can not be held responsible. This time you remind me Musharraf. At time of karachi riots you were not sure who to blame, but here you are quite sure. Amazing!!
Javeria – Do they know how strict the rules for Jihad are?
Me – Thats the problem with you folks after reading few books, you guys start thinking that you are the only one knows the thing. Others don’t know the sh*t about it. And accordingly, now you are about to tell them how strict are the rules of Jihad. We welcome, JAVERIA, the only living person who know Islam well.
Javeria – One sahabi, i have forgotten the name, was fighting a pagan during a battle and he over came that pagan. That pagan, due to fear of death recited the Kalima. The sahabi said to him you just recited the kalima to save your life so he killed the pagan. Hearing this Prophet saw was extremely angry with that sahabi.
Me – Not related.
Javeria – This shows how strict the guidelines for jihad are.
Me – Is it? Where?
Javeria – “Stop evil with your hands” – is the backbone of the hafsa and the lal masjid brigade. They are using it to justify all these actions.
Me – They are doing quite right. If you don’t stop evil in Paksitan, then where else on the earth you will do that. US, Netherlands, no no, Denmark. . .. Am I right?
Javeria – No where do you find such examples in the seerah of Rasool Allah. This is not Islam. Lal Masjid and Hafsa Girls do Not represent Islam.
Me – Can you tell me from seerah how to fight a tyrant governer/president?
Sharm tum ko magar naheen aati.