Posted in Dr. Israr Ahmed, My Articles, News, Pakistan, Religion, Sects

Dr. Israr Ahmed’s QTV Statement

Dr. Israr Ahmed’s QTV Statement regarding the hadith about Ali Radiallahu Anhuma:

QTV Statement Audio File

There was a lecture of Dr. Israr Ahmed on QTV Channel on 12th June,08 in which he was giving the Explanation of Surah Nisa Verse 43 : O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say…”

Dr. Israr quoted the reason of revelation of this verse, which one sect of Muslims found offensive to their beliefs.

According to Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Tafsir Ibn Jarir and hadiths mentioned in Sunan Abi Dawood and Jama Tirmizi which have been classified as Sahih by Sheikh Nasir Uddin Albani and also mentioned by Mufti Muhammad Shafi : Some companions along with Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra) were gathered together and had a few drinks and this was before the prohibition of alcohol. Then time for prayer came and Ali (ra) was asked to lead the prayers in which due to intoxication he made a mistake. Then the above mentioned verse of Surah Nisa was revealed.


Drinking was common before the final order of its Prohibition came:

Before the complete Prohibition of alcohol, the companions of Prophet Muhammad used to drink alcohol and there is nothing to be ashamed about or upset about this fact. Allah’s orders came gradually, first telling the fact that Alcohol has some good in it but it has more harm in it. It was only this second order which forbade the Muslims from being drunk in the state of prayer and the final order came later which completely banned alcoholic drinks. When the final order came, some companions were at that moment drinking but on hearing the order totally threw away their drinks. Then some people started having doubts about the Muslims who were killed before the final prohibition, so Allah revealed the verse that there is no sin on them for what they had in the past before the prohibition order and this has been mentioned in Bukhari

Bukhari : Volume 3, Book 43, Number 644:

Narrated Anas:

I was the butler of the people in the house of Abu Talha, and in those days drinks were prepared from dates. Allah’s Apostle ordered somebody to announce that alcoholic drinks had been prohibited. Abu Talha ordered me to go out and spill the wine. I went out and spilled it, and it flowed in the streets of Medina. Some people said, “Some people were killed and wine was still in their stomachs.” On that the Divine revelation came:- “On those who believe And do good deeds There is no blame For what they ate (in the past).” (Quran 5: 93)

Ali Radiallahu Anhum was a human being and it is human to err

Why is it hard to accept that all Arabs used to drink before Alcohol was prohibited and if Ali (ra) had alcohol so did many other companions and there is no sin on them at all for doing something which was allowed at that time. Also Ali (ra) was a human and it is human to err or make a mistake in recitation of Quran. If it is your belief that he was a super human or an angel who never made any mistakes, then keep your beliefs to your own self. No need to impose your beliefs on others and make others do Explantion of Quran according to your own wishes and desires.

Stop Abusing Dr. Israr Ahmed: It is a sin to abuse and revile other Muslims

After this incident, the disgruntled people started abusing Dr. Israr and writing abuse on the walls of Karachi, making online hate groups against Dr. Israr and insulting him on forums and websites. For those people abusing Dr. Israr and using bad language against him… my response:

Is this what your Imam Ali (ra) taught you, to use abusive and obscene language against others??? You claim to be following the true Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad.. Is it the way of Prophet Muhammad Sallalahu Alayhe Wasallam to use filthy langugae against other humans?

Abdullah b. Amr b. al-As is reported to have said: Verily a person asked the Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him) who amongst the Muslims was better. Upon this (the Holy Prophet) remarked: From whose hand and tongue the Muslims are safe. Book 001, Number 0064: MUSLIM

Narrated Abu Huraira: that he heard the Prophet saying, “O Allah! If I should ever abuse a believer, please let that be a means of bringing him near to You on the Day of Resurrection.” Bukhari Volume 8, Book 75, Number 372:

Abusing others is an act of Jahalat

Narrated Al-Ma’rur:At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, “I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names.” The Prophet said to me, ‘O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names You still have some characteristics of ignorance. Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29: Bukhari

Sayings of Ali Radiallahu Anhum regarding the tongue and abusing others

“A man is hid under his tongue.”

“Do not speak in a state of ignorance.”

“That knowledge is superficial which is merely on the tongue. That knowledge is real which demonstrates itself in your practice.” Source (Witness Pioneer)

Hazrat Ali said: “I consider it highly undesirable to abuse and revile others….” [Nehjulbalagha, islamic seminary publications, sermon 211]

Allah has forbidden the Muslims to even abuse and revile the non-Muslims (Kafirs and Mushriks)… let alone Muslims! So how can you abuse other Muslims and Companions of Prophet Muhammad and Muslim Scholars??

It seems like your religion is good for nothing but abusing, cursing, reviling and insulting other Muslims, starting from the best of the companions of Prophet Muhammad saw, his honorable wives the mothers of the believers, sunni muslims, wahabis, salafis, Muslim Imams, scholars, preachers you name it! Arent all these people Muslims who have read the Kalima

Narrated Abu Said:

The Prophet said, “Do not abuse my companions for if any one of you spent gold equal to Uhud (in Allah’s Cause) it would not be equal to a Mud or even a half Mud spent by one of them.” Bukhari Volume 5, Book 57, Number 22:

How can you abuse and curse left right and centre when Allah has prohibited the Muslims from even cursing or abusing non muslims, the mushriks, Christians and pagans?!!

Quran (6:108 )
” Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah…”

Update :(After reading my post I am sure you would be dying to curse and abuse me, as well as abusing Dr. Israr more, but please keep your dirty language insults and accusations off my blog)

63 thoughts on “Dr. Israr Ahmed’s QTV Statement

  1. @Salman

    Firstly the Makkans were the descendents of Ibrahim Alayheis Salam and Ismael Alayhis Salam. They used to say there were on the deen of Ibrahim Alayhe salam. it was known as deenay ibrahimi. But most of them had deviated from the original teachings of Ibrahim Alayhis salam and had started committing shirk by making idols, thinking that they are a wasila to Allah.

    Regarding Tahir ul Qadri – he is a deviated “so called scholar” who has no authority on religion. Therefore his words and verdicts against all the respectable Tafsir Books, scholars and ulemas is utterly in-acceptable.


    According to The Holy Bible
    Saint Mathew chap 27 verse 46
    “And about the ninth hour,Jesus cried with a loud voice-saying ELI ELI Lama Shabaktani, that is to say My God, My Lord why hast thou forsaken me?”

    According to the book “The Last Reformer Of The World(s.a)”
    the maening of “Lama Shabaktani” is the of that of

    So now according to you salman, Hadrat Ali (ra) is god! (Nauzobillah)
    You have read the Bible.. but have you ever read the entire Quran?

    Have you ever read the verses which say that there is NO OTHER god BUT ALLAH?!!

    فَاعْلَمْ أَنَّهُ لا إِلَهَ إِلا اللَّهُ وَاسْتَغْفِرْ لِذَنْبِكَ وَلِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَالْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ مُتَقَلَّبَكُمْ وَمَثْوَاكُمْ
    047.019 Know, therefore, that there is no god but Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, and for the men and women who believe: for Allah knows how ye move about and how ye dwell in your homes.
    Al-Qur’an, 047.019 (Muhammad [Muhammad])

    وَإِلَهُكُمْ إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ لا إِلَهَ إِلا هُوَ الرَّحْمَنُ الرَّحِيمُ
    And your Allah is One Allah: There is no god but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
    Al-Qur’an, 002.163 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])

    What you are saying salman is SHIRK AND KUFR. think about what you are saying and stop calling yourself a Muslim.
    You are doing exactly what the Christians did. They raised the status of prophet Isa (as) and turned him into a god and you are doing the same with Ali (ra)!


    I refused to discuss anything further with you.
    Blog Admin.

    @ Nasik Mehdi

    The hadith is mentioned in Jama e Tirmizi and also Sunan Abi Dawood.

    Albani has classified the Tarmizi hadtih as Sahih and Imam Tarmizi has classified it as Hasan Sahih.(Sahih Tirmizi 3026)

    The hadith of Sunan abi dawood has been classified as Sahih by Albani.(sahih Abu Dawood 3671) Imam dawood is silent about the status of the hadith so it is classified as Salah.

    Some famous Classical Tafsir books which mention this event are:
    Tafsir Maqatil By Imam Bin Hayan (d:150 Hijri)
    Tafsir At Tabari by Imam Jarir (D: 310 Hijri)
    Tafsir Ibn Atia by Imam Ibn Atia (D:546 Hijri)
    Zad Al Maseer by Imam Ibn Jozi (D: 597 Hijri)
    Tafsir Qurtubi by Imam Qurtubi (D:671 Hijri)
    Tafsir Ibn Kathir by Imam Ibn Kathir (D: 774 Hijri)
    Tafsir As Salbi by Imam Salbi (D:875 Hijri)

    Some recent Tafsir Books which mention this event are:
    Bayan Ul Quran by Molana Ashraf Ali Thanvi
    Mariful Quran by Mufti Muhammad Shafi
    Taiseerul Quran by Abdur Rahman Keelani.

    For details read the link:

    I also agree with you fully that “is difficult to discuss with a pre-determined mind frame.”

    La Ikraha Fideen – There is no compulsion in religion.


  2. Allama Shawkani states in reference to the hadith in question that, the view that Abdur-Rahman Ibn Awf or someone else led the prayer is the Sahih transmission. The Khawarij put the blame on Hadhrat Ali that they led the prayer. [Nayl al-Awtar]Allama Shawkani were from the same school of though as Allama Ibn Taymiyya.

  3. Its my request to all here to go to and learn something that goes with them in their graves. And those who already learned QURAN plz join a Jamaat of their own choice so that they can write their names in Those who r striving for the ALLAH’s NIZAM.

  4. Great Job Sis!!. These Shia minority always wanted to create a chaos in already sleeping muslim ummah, and even some of illiterate sunni also supported them in all this look at the youtube!!. Anyways we can never guide who is already misguided by ALLAH S.W.T.

  5. @javeria
    Thats not a proper answer for the references u may see the books of Dr.Tahir-ul-Qadri who is ,for ur kind information’ not belongs from shia sect.
    Just answer me that what was the religion of the Holy Prophet’s(s.a) family before the Islam and what was the religion of THE Holy Prophet(s.a) Himself.

    4 Your hint u may see the khutba of Nikah of the Holy Prophet(s.a) which Hazrat Abu-Talib(a.s) recited.

  6. According to The Holy Bible
    Saint Mathew chap 27 verse 46
    “And about the ninth hour,Jesus cried with a loud voice-saying ELI ELI Lama Shabaktani, that is to say My God, My Lord why hast thou forsaken me?”

    According to the book “The Last Reformer Of The World(s.a)”
    the maening of “Lama Shabaktani” is the of that of
    As miss javeria says that I told u the stories which any zakir tell me in majlis.So That was not told to me in any Majlis.I have THe Holy Bible at my home and I have confirmed it.

  7. salam to all, and especially for ms. javeria,

    it may be my few of last posts,

    i would not like to continue, because it is difficult to discuss with a pre-determined mind frame.

    in healthy discussions, opinions are exchanged and not imposed,

    with respect to tradition quoted by dr. israr, i have learnt new standards, new muslim standards,

    firstly i would like to state that its not matter whether hazrat ali was infallible or not, whther he was not perfect or not. this specific tradition pertains to simple human standards.

    quoting an example, with lots of regards, i place a hypothesis that would ms. javeria smoke before her father.
    i believe, keeping in mind moral values of our society and religion, that ms. javeria wuld not do any such action. wots the reason for not doing so, when smoking is not even haram. because it would be indecent to do so, especially before her father. noone who has respect for his / her father would not do so, not even once in life of his / her father.

    when ordinary people can have that much regard for their parents, how come hazrat ali (as) can say prayers, while losing his senses. how he can appear before god in such indecent manner. he would have been certainly taught some manners by holy prophect (pbuh), which would abstain him from diong so.

    further, as regards to authenticity of hadeeth is concerned, i have placed certain objections in this regard, in one of my post earlier, reply of which has not been provided and SHALL NOT BE PROVIDED.

    as regards to other comments of ms. javeria on shia sect, i would not respond, because i have earlier stated that in this specific blog, i would comment only on dr. israr issue.

    however, if invited / challenged / sought, i can provide brief of shia school of thought, such that pollution could be removed from minds.

    as regards to the book to whcih ms. javeria is refering, objections / allegations will be removed quite easily, if there is someone to hear.

    further, a small sincere and unbiased effort must be made to unearth, how names of various fiqh were derived. who was supported by government of that particular time and who was put in dungeons. then emergence of shia sect would be better understood, rather, it would be known that who is at the right path and which sect was derived by the blessings of dictators of that time.

    hopefully i would try not to comment any more, because discussion with pre-determined mind is fruitless, rather
    waste of time. however, i will frequently visit the page in ordet to find out any logical objection on shia sect, if any.

    finally, if discussion would be carried out in such biased manner, i do not anticipate anything fruitful from this and same would convert into typical blogs abusing other sects.

    thanks and regards,


  8. The Basis of this conflict between Shia and Sunni is the status of Ali Radiaallahu Anhum.

    Shias think that he is infallible, incapable of sinning and like an angel who never committed any mistake in his life.

    Our view point is that he is like all the other companions of Rasool Allah Salalahu Alayhe Wasalam. He is a human and not free from making mistakes.

    Like i asked Salman to quote the books from where he got the “stories” from – but such stories which greatly exaggerate the status of Ali (ra) are nothing but fairly tales which the shias hear in their majalis – without any authenticity whatsoever.

    Unlike the shia religion,Islam is not based on fairly tales and stories that we hear in our study circles. Our deen based on the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (saw)which we have preserved in various hadith books and we also have a strict system of authenticating these hadiths called “Science of Hadith” which classifies these hadiths.

    It is your “supposition” that because he grew up under the care of Prophet Muhammad (saw) that is why it is not possible for him to drink.

    But we do not “Suppose” or “derive” things from our own selves. We have a tradtion which is authentic which tells us about the said event. We are not going to reject an authentic tradition to support our “supposition”.We do not see this event as a black spot on the personality of Ali (ra). We revere and respect him as much as we respect the other Sahabas.

    Now since your point of view regarding Ali ra is different from ours, then this is a futile discussion.

    Plus you do not believe our books of hadiths – so why create such an issue and object to a hadith in our hadith books. We belive it to be authentic while you dont, we belive Ali ra was a human being who could make a mistake- where as you dont.

    These are two diverging viewpoints which can not be reconciled.

    I am going to repeat what i said in my post:

    “If it is your belief that he (Ali ra) was a super human or an angel who never made any mistakes, then keep your beliefs to your own self. No need to impose your beliefs on others and make others do Explantion of Quran according to your own wishes and desires.”

    And i am going to recommend you to read th unbiased book on Shia Islam again before you start another debate with anybody.

  9. salam to all,

    lots of appreciations for ms. javeria, she deserves for hosting such impressive blog,

    but my opinions / arguments with respect to dr. israr statement are still unattended,

    along with appreciating ms. javeria, my objctions should also be answered, meticuously, throughly and logically.

    thanks and regards,


  10. Assalamu Alaikum Sister Javeria,

    Jazak Allahu Khairan for the wonderfully researched article in support of Dr. Israr Ahmed.

    It is really sad to see such a great scholar of our time being targetted so extensively and with such venom.

    May Allah (swt) guide us all and keep us steadfast on the straight path.

  11. Aslamoalikm,
    Dr. Israr didn’t have to apologise. shia knows that they are not on the right path that is why they keep on making things to daviat others from right path.
    we are muslim umma .so we should follow the deen given us by ALLAH and Rasool SAW.May ALLAH strengthen our faith. Ameen.
    your brother in islam

  12. aslamoalikum.
    thanks to ALLAH that there are some people, who has courage and knowledge, to guide people according to Quran and hadith regardless of what other think. in Pakistan Dr. Israr is perhaps the only scholar who is bold enough to speak the right thing. people must understand he did’t
    offend anybody. muslims respect all companions of Rasool ALLAH (PBHU).

    We must read and understand Quran and Hadith before pointing finger to any scholer.
    May ALLAH guide us all.

    your brother in Islam

  13. salam, especially to ms. javeria

    i have searched replies for allegations, mentioned in sites which u referred.

    i am happy that refered allegations are baseless, biased,

    if required, same will be responded effectievly,

    but in this particular forum, i reiterate that if i am allowed to particpate, i will remain to dr. israr issue only,

    further, my objections / queries mentioned above, regarding tradition quoted by dr. israr are still unattended.

    thx and regards,


  14. salam,

    and for ms. javeria,

    since this specific blog is about dr. israr’s comments, i have already requested that other issues should not be touched here.

    since u r founder of the forum, u r requested to discourage discussion of other issues here.

    i will not start an endless debate overhere, im still discussing tradition quoted by dr. israr.

    finally, im happy to know about ur research, but the sites u referred are highly biased. and can be easily refuted. excpet for few objctions, inshallah all other allegations of said websites can be easily countered. as regards to remaining few, im working on them.

    so in future, ill remain to dr. israr issue only, but will respond to any objection, pointd out by anyone,

    thx and regards,


  15. salam to all,


    my example of smoking was not communicated properly, i guess,
    i meant that anyone brought up by hazrat muhammad (pbuh) will have high values and standards. and he would not have indecent habits.
    so such action is not understandable. belieing in such action would leave serious doubts over holy prophet’s ability to brought up a child (nauz-o-bollah).

    secondly, i agree that gap created during last 1400 years can not be overcome so easily. whole sunnis cannot become shias and vice versa. but one will be asked individually by god, and not collectively, on judgement day.

    i further agree that saying bad about sahaaba is not goood, it is indecent and inflames hatred among muslims.

    as regards to dr. israr, im still unable to buy any of arguments, my arguments are still unattended.

    thanks and regards,


  16. I at once left the mosque after hearing that language, and during all that, I said the following before leaving right to the Imam:

    “You who claims to be a Muslim, atleast respect the status of the pulpit on which you are sitting!”

    After saying this, I left for another mosque.

    I was also utterly disgusted by the biased show-off remarks by Tahir-ul-Qadri and his “Aashiqan” group.

  17. Assalamu Alaikum Sister Javeria,

    It was a refreshing experience after reading through your detailed encyclopedia answer to all the shameful abuses and slanders cited against respected Dr. Israr.

    Not to cite any sectarianism here, the Imam of a particular school of thought in my neighbourhood started uttering nonsense against Dr. sahib during the Friday sermon, on the pulpit! Imagine! And yet they claim to be “AASHIQAN-E-RASOOL! (SAW)”

    I felt bad that I could not post a blog reply due to studies and job problems. Allah solved my problem. Thank you sister. I shall paste a link tothi post of yours at my site. You must have read the latest Press Release by Dr . Israr on his site… he has provided complete references from which he quoted the Hadi’th.

    May Allah bless you
    Your brother in Islam

    Zaki Khalid Iqbal

  18. Assalam u alaikum to all,
    Two days before, I was really shocked to see the boy of almost under 15 yrs of age, distributing a pamphlet with blasphemous language used for Dr. Israr Ahmed… I was thinking that ‘IF’ Israr Ahmed have said something wrong (which he did’nt) , then those people are doing more serious crime by writing Hazrat Ali’s name on such pamphlets that contain more than worst language!!! I just don’t understand what they people wants to do with him … That not even leave good impact on the mind of that child distributor….
    By seen the number of posts on this topic and conflict of issues… i just got the hint that this issue is endless here as some of them are neither even considering the facts nor realizing the history, era before and after the life of Holy Prophet (P.B.U.H)….
    This matter can be easily justified if ‘someone’ realize that Quran and Hadith are supereme authority and none is above it….
    I appreciate Javeria for his wonderful effort and hope that she will continue like that …..
    Take care
    Allah Hafiz

  19. @Nasik wa salam. My dear in our village places… Smoking is as common that father and son smoke the same Huqqa at the same time and is not odd over there as they don’t think it socially degraded. Rest about Hazrat Ali RA i didn’t state anything by own. Nor i have interest to state the things which may cause any contradiction. Debate on faith is going from 1400 years but its fruitless. I have tried to study some shia books as well in past times. Its your faith and one is ours. We cant cover the gap which centuries time couldn’t. One more thing is that Dr sb, i found the only scholar who is in favor of shia sunni mafahmat. His booklet on this topic is also available. “shia sunni mafahmat ki zarurt aur ahmiut”. one blog i found on net on the same diallogue. Nasik…. Can you beleive they abused all well known sahabas, umhatul momineen all sunni imams. And even all todays known names. we don’t abuse anyone. Hazrat Ali RA Hamary b hein. Aur buht pyary hein hamein. Dr sb call him shahkare risalat.

  20. @ Syed Nasik


    Just search the internet and you will find hundereds of forums discussing these issues endlessly without any fruits. So my blog is not a shia Vs sunni forum which is an utter waster of time.

    All these events u mentioned I have studied in depth and detail and these events do not prove from any angle the Shia concept of “Immamat” that there will be twelve infallible imams appointed by Allah who will have divine knowledge and that the twelfth imam will go into hiding for centuries and centuries for no apparent reason.

    Also please read up on your twelfth imam. Your books are filled with contradictions about him and some very bizzare and funny incidents which are not at all believable.

    Again i would request you to first read the Book i mentioned:

    I have also read Nahjul Balagha and found many contradictions in it as well proof that Ali radiallahu anhum did not have knowledge of the unseen and that neither was he infallible and there was no divine inspiration given to him to chose the next imam.

    The dust has already been removed from the mirror. To see the clean mirror visit the following sites.

    With due apologies i am not going to start endless debates on my blog regarding the issues you mentioned. Visit the sites i have mentioned for the correct perceptions of these events or indulge in endless debates on hundreds of other forums online.

    May Allah Guide us all to the truth. Ameen.

  21. @ Salman

    Offtopic comments are not moderated and comments containing abuse slander and bad words are spammed.

    Whatever stories you have just written in your comments i just have one question for you.. “SAYS WHO???!!”

    Where did u get these stories from? can u mention the hadith books and the chain of narrators and when these books were written – are these classified as SAHIH or DAEEF or Fabricated?

  22. for ms. javeria and abu baker, brotherly speaking, with regards and sincerety, why dont initiate a seperate forum for other issues, like, verse of tatheer, muta marriage, hadeeth of pen and paper, caliphate, garden of fidak, etc etc

    inshallah dust will be removed from the mirror,

    may allah bless peace and calm to all muslims,



  23. kabah was considered as the noble place by the whole arab.When the time of birth of Hazrat Essa(a.s) came near then Hazrat Mariam(s.a) went near the Kabah.Then according to the Quran that She was not allowed to sit near Kabah at that stage when Hazrat Essa(a.s) came to earth.
    But when on the 13th of rajab,the wife of Hazrat Abu Talib(a.s) came near to Kabah the wall of the Kabah opened from a Blast and She went inside.
    i.e.that the Wife of Hazrat Abu Talib knows that the Great Companion and brother of His Last Prophet is coming in the Kabah. Thru this Allah told to us that one servant of the Holy Prophet(s.a) has greater ranj then Hazrat Essa(a.s).If The Holy Prophet was saved from any Nijasat of that time everytime then all the companions and Family members of The Holy Prophet were also saved from such things throughout their lives.
    This was the part of that plan which Allah mentioned in Surah-e-Ahzab which I have told u before.

    Dont remove this comment

  24. @javeria n abubakar

    you r taliking about that family which took care of the Holy Prophet(s.a).
    At the year of aam-ul-feel when that event of kabba occurred Banu-Hashim were the only who didnt react so vigorously,because the know that the value of the Kabah is not cheap and Allah will save it.Hazrat Abdulmuttalib and his whole family was considered the most noble family of that time.They where the guideins of the Kabah.The whole Banu Hashim were on Hazrat Ibrahim’s religion and in every religion before the final one dont allow anyone to drink.

    I have mentiond it before but no one replied and many of my true comments were removed because u could not answer them.

  25. salam again to all, and especially abu baker,

    i found from ur opinion that since drinking at that time was not prohibbited, then its no harm, to drink.

    i would reiterate my opinion told earlier, smoking is not sin, but not a good habit, so good individuals remain away from it, because they feel disgrace while smoking. same is the case would be with drinking, although not declared haram at that time, but not a good gesture, then how to expect that hazrat ali would have drunk, when he was brought up by holy prophet (pbuh).



  26. @javera! I appreciate you. I also searched the same verses to reply salman, but you replied in a better manner. Allah bless you on your effort to remove the dust from mirror.

  27. Wa-salam nasik.. Sorry on my fault on not replying salam. And i appreciate you on being not emotional, and avoiding rude words. My dear friend! HAZRAT ALI RA ki pakeezgi py koi shak kisi b qism ka nai hai. Hurmate sharab ka is sy pehly koi order nai tha. QURANE MAJEED ki jo ayet is sy pehly reveal ho chuki the, us mei kaha gya tha k “is mei faida kam hai r nuqsan zyada. Jb ik cheez mana he nai tu wo buri kasy hui. And the final order of prohibition is further ahead, after this verse on some other place, i think in surahe Maeda.(if not forgetting). We are on the argument that when something is not prohibited, there is no sin. Example is that in madina first thirteen months, muslims said there prayers in the direction of bait ul maqdas. Then occured tahweele qibla by revealation. (surah al baqra). Muslims worried about their previouv prayers. Prophet sa consoled them. That there is no sin of previous. This is the matter my friends, nothing more than that. May Allah keep his blessings.

  28. salam again and especially for ms. javeria,

    first of all, a good activity, discussing religion on internet, needs appreciation and encouragement.

    i would like to sate that you would have brothers and sisters, and you would have disagreements among yourselves, but even then you would not have hard feelings for them.

    same case applies for various sects of muslims, difference of opinion exists, but all sects revolve around oneness of god and finality of holy muhammad (pbuh) as prophet. therefore, being founder of the forum, you are requested to maintain an environment of healthy discussion.

    as regards to your comments about verse of tatheer, i would suggest to open a seperate forum, such that other matters should not be discussed over here.

    thanks and regards,


    suggestion or request, since u r founder of this forum,

  29. First of all i would like to inform shiaas i,e kafirs dont mind this is true,THAT W AHLE SUNNAT WAL JAMAAT NEVER ABUSE EVEN TABA TABAIEEN OR EVEN ANY SUFIS SAINTS ETC AS U ALL ARE DOING.
    Secondly why u feel so such anger when u abuse all sahaba then why dont u feel such that.Tel one thing if any body GAALI DAI AAP KAI PARENTS KO TO AAP KO KAISA LAGAI GA AUR AAP REACTION MAI KIA KARAI GAI.
    All kafirs never believed that they are kafirs from the time of Rasool S.A.W.So we have to only inform them and if not followed then have to do jihad.

  30. salam to all, and abu bakar, especially,

    sir aap nay salam ka jawab nahee dia thaaa,

    as regards to collection of hadeeth is concerned, it would lead us to another discussion and since now, we are discussing only specific tradition narrated by dr. israr, i will try to remain on that issue ONLY.

    i would like to bring into your consideration the following:

    1) one of the narrotors of this tradition is ATTA IBN ES SAAIB, who was mentally ill, thats why said tradition has not been quoted in sahee bukhari and sahee muslim, just becasue of this specific reason.

    2) Dr. israr in his letter (sort of apology / clarification) has referred to MAJMUUA AHADEETH SAHEEH by ALLAM NASIR ULDDIN ALBANI. correct name of this book is SILSILA AHADEETH SAHEEH. said tradition is not available in this book. however, allama nasir uddin has time and again stated about mental disorder of ATTA IBN ES SAAIB (one of the narrators of this tradition).

    3) keeping our debate on authenticity aside, please note that many actions are not sins, but not acceptable as good gestures. like smoking, smoking is not a good habit, assume a religious scholar who smokes, it does not suit stature of a scholar to smoke, then how come we expect from hazrat ali, who has been brought up by holy prophet (pbuh) can drink. it simply does not go with the personality of hazrat ali (as).

    one more thing, i would try my level best not to hurt feelings of my readers, and expect the same from others. discussion can be carried forward in a decent, healthy and educated manner.

    thx and regards.


  31. @ salman

    Clearly you have NO IDEA about the Arabic language and meanings of words whether it be literal meaning or implied meanings.

    Firstly you have mistranslated the verse:

    037.083 وَإِنَّ مِنْ شِيعَتِهِ لإبْرَاهِيمَ
    037.083 Verily among those who followed his Way was Abraham.

    “his” here means Prophet Nuh. Please read the verse before abd after verse 83 and you will realize the context.
    So here Shia means “Those who followed Prophet Nuh’ way”

    Secondly and MOST IMPORTANTLY

    Wherever the word “Shia” appears in the Quran , are you implying that it means the modern day “Shia Sect” You must be joking. Firstly Shiasm with its core concept of “Immaamt” as an aqidah came as a sect of Muslims years AFTER Rasool Allah saw’s death. How can Ibrahim (as) be a Shia when Shiasm did not even exist that time.

    and how will you deal with the following verses of Quran where Allah is scolding the “Shia”. ???

    ثُمَّ لَنَنْزِعَنَّ مِنْ كُلِّ شِيعَةٍ أَيُّهُمْ أَشَدُّ عَلَى الرَّحْمَنِ عِتِيًّا
    Then shall We certainly drag out from every Shia (sect) all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against (Allah) Most Gracious.[Al-Qur’an, 019.069 (Maryam)]

    مُنِيبِينَ إِلَيْهِ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلاةَ وَلا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
    Turn ye back in repentance to Him, and fear Him: establish regular prayers, and be not ye among those who join gods with Allah,-(30:31)

    مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا كُلُّ حِزْبٍ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ فَرِحُونَ
    Those who split up their Religion, and become Shia (sect),- each party rejoicing in that which is with itself! (30:32)

    وَإِذَا مَسَّ النَّاسَ ضُرٌّ دَعَوْا رَبَّهُمْ مُنِيبِينَ إِلَيْهِ ثُمَّ إِذَا أَذَاقَهُمْ مِنْهُ رَحْمَةً إِذَا فَرِيقٌ مِنْهُمْ بِرَبِّهِمْ يُشْرِكُونَ
    When trouble touches men, they cry to their Lord, turning back to Him in repentance: but when He gives them a taste of Mercy as from Himself, behold, a party of them associate partners in worship with their Lord. (30:33)

    Al-Qur’an, 030.031-033 (Ar-Room)


    Have you even fully read the WHOLE VERSE OF TATHEER? Please read below and see for your self that the whole verse is being addressed to the Wives of Prophet Muhammad (saw): They are obviously included in the family of Rasool Allah.

    Secondly and most importantly no where does the verse imply that the family of Rasool Allah is sinless from birth or that they are infallible.

    Read the words carefully ” ALLAH ONLY WISHES” it does not say “ALLAH HAS”

    يَا نِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ لَسْتُنَّ كَأَحَدٍ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ إِنِ اتَّقَيْتُنَّ فَلا تَخْضَعْنَ بِالْقَوْلِ فَيَطْمَعَ الَّذِي فِي قَلْبِهِ مَرَضٌ وَقُلْنَ قَوْلا مَعْرُوفًا
    O Consorts of the Prophet! Ye are not like any of the (other) women: if ye do fear (Allah), be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just.(Quran 33:32)

    وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الأولَى وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلاةَ وآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا
    And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless. (Quran 33:33)

    Al-Qur’an, 033.033 (Al-Ahzab [The Clans, the Coalition, the Combined Forces])

    You can not take a “portion” out of a verse and say that this was revealed for some other people and not those addressed in the whole verse. Please take off your glasses of biase-ness and hatred towards the wives of Rasool Allah.

  32. @Irfan
    If you say any shia as kafir then you are making yourself fool and leaving no doubt in my mind that u r not a Muslim becuase u dont believe in Quran.
    Because according to the Holy Quran
    Surah Al Safat verse 83:
    “And no doubt that Ibrahim (a.s) is amoungst HIS SHIAS”.

    Go and tell your uleemah which dont believe in Quran.

  33. Assalamu alaikum

    I would like to appreciate javeria for her effort to clear the misunderstanding about Dr. Israr’s statement. I must say that it is very wrong of us to think of Dr. sahb and his knowledge in such a negative way. We should research and check ourselves first before pointing anyone especially someone so knowlegeable and on such an issue. What he said is something “recorded”! And it is no excuse that that was from “unathentic sources” and all that!

    It just shows how we muslims are so illeterate and backward in the knowledge of our own deen. May Allah guide us all.(Ameen)

  34. Mr nasik.. I could not find any of your previous comments. Anyhow the reason by which this diallogue is going through, is the protest by ahle tashee on dr Sb’s statement. Dr sb coated from two books of hadith and 17 books of tafseer. The fist ravi is Hazrat Ali ra. According to protestees all these references are from unauthentic sources. Current shiazm started from Safvi dynasty. Where as Dr Sb’s reference books are written much before that. If these books are not authenticated, from where you people got the reall knowledge of Islam. Most of all if these books are fake, it means the whole Ahle sunnat is based on self generated knowledge and values. Do shias protest on that ???

  35. Masla hum sunnis ka hai kai hum log khul kar protest nahi kartai .jab shia hamarai three khulfai rashaideen ko nahi maan tai to ye sunnis ki dil aazari nahi.
    Ye log kafir hai sab ko pata hai magar hum sab compromise kiai baithai hai.
    We have to protest QTV also that they have to again onair DR ISRAR.Otherwise we make this as an issue.
    We have to wrote all ulemaas.
    Our elemaas already declare them as kafirs.
    So all we have to take stand otherwise doing dicussions is alaways done by those who dont have any eemaan.

  36. salam again to all, and specifically to abu bakar,

    as regards to mr. abu bakar’s requirement from shia, proving themselves true followers of holy prophet (pbuh) and hazrat ali (as), a number of arguments can be provided,

    however, in order to keep discussion on a directed path, it would be advisable that specific objections on shias should be highlighted, which will be meticulously responded, inshallah.

    further, i would like to state that as per rulings of jaamia azhar, highly acknowledged seminary of ahl-e-sunnat, fatwa is available thereby stating fiqh jaafriya a proper sect of muslims, like others sects, hanbali, shafi maliki and hanifi.

    thx and regards


  37. Dear all Asalam O alekum
    What Dr. Israr told its nothing from his own.
    Its all in History of Islam and the truth is only truth…If Hazrat Ali (R.A) Took Wine that time it was not haram just like amashroob…Or one thing Hazrat Ali (R.A) was Nauzobillah Not a GOD or Nor A Nabi why shouting. Go and chang History specially Termizi and Eb-NE-Dawood & Mariful Quran Page Number 422 Second Para Shan-E-Nazool.

  38. AOA,
    I think we as muslim ummah knows that Ulma (Scholars)of this era have no comparison with Khulfa e rashideen (ra) Khulfa Rashideen (ra) are the corner stone of Islamic education.Our love and favour should be fall in the court of Ahkam – e -illahi and persons who followed Allah taala ahkamats .
    I want to say to opponents of Dr.Israr Ahmed that if Dr Sahb would put wrong quote and that rivayat was not in the referenced Hadith book than Dr.Sahb would commit a big sin (bohtan),and he would force to beg apologise to Allah and he would force to improve his knowledge at first and if he would deny than he must deserve hatred and punishment. But it is a fact that he quoted a authenticated Rivayat from authenticated book and this rivayat is also mentioned in Sunan abu Dawod at 3663 Hadith (If i don’t forget). Allah knows what is true or what is not but for us and for our ulma karam it is a written historical fact.It is a mashiat-e- illahi that Allah wanted to give ummah a precious Ayat of Quran in this way.

  39. Dr.israr ahmed i am with u.u quote a authentic hadith’s.I am not (nowzobillah) against to Hazrat Ali.But plz donot compare Khulfa-e-rashideen.dr.israr ahmed You are little ALLAMA IQBAL

  40. PLEASE WAKE AND DONT DO COMPRISE SEE WHAT KAFIRS DONE WITH DR SAHIB.we always say that dont abuse this and that to shias as every body know that they are kafirs.
    Whenever any right thing explain by any sunni scholar or aalims they become hurt and nobody pointed these shias that they totally hurt sunni as they never believe on rest of three khulfai rashaideen.BUT WE SUNI ALWAYS BEHAVE COMPROMISING.
    I wrote to dr sahib also that why he say sorry as he tells the truth.Inspite of this we all sunni have to protest QTV team that onair again DR.sahib as we sunni have hurt by this attitude of QTVS TEAM.
    I request all muslims that they do mails to QTV THAT WE ALL SUNNI HURT BY PUTTING SANCTION ON DR SAHIB

  41. With due respect to shia community, we are equally lovers of Hazrat Ali (RA) like Other Khulfa-e-Rashdeen and Suhaabas.If Dr.Israr Ahmed, a legendry Islamic scholar of today has just quoted a historical ref while explaining an aayah, what is wrong with that. I have studied shiaism and know very well how much you respect other suhaabas except Hazrat Ali . What to say, You don’t even believe them. Dr.Israr Ahmed is serving Islam for last many decades and is an authority over Islamic history.

  42. shias keep no right to discuss Dr Israr Ahmed’s statement or personality. Firstly they should prove themselves the true followers of Holy Prophet sa and Hazrat Ali ra. They keep no right to say all sunni Tafseers unauthentic.

  43. Aoa,
    First of all thanks for great explantion about Dr. Israr Ahmed’s statement. I appreciate Dr. Israr for his boldness and clearity. From this event i can realize how much Irrational we are. We are not able to use our thinking power.
    Those People Who are talking Against Dr. Israr’s speech Love Ali Like Christians Love Jesus. These People do not consider Ali as a human being. They Consider him as an angel or prophet who is directly guided by god.
    May Allah protect all muslim men and women and guide us on right path.

  44. I am listening Dr. Israr since last about 5-6 years and met him once. He is a very learned scholar and have very candid opinions/views. What he narrated was an incident which is given in most of the authentic books of Hadith and Tafseer. This incident happaned before the prohibition orders regarding liquor. So there is no way to get annoyed. A similar parallel can be drawn of Hazrat Umar (RA) who before accepting Islam was a staunch enemy of Islam and had infact gone with an intent to execute Prophet but after listening to Quran accepted Islam and became the biggest supporter of Prophet and Islam. The criticism of Dr. Israr is on the basis of sheer ignorance, which is unfortunately the case with most of us (Muslims).

  45. Dr. Israr Ahmad, was born on April 26, 1932 in Hisar (a district of East Punjab, now a part of Haryana State) in India. He graduated from King Edward Medical College (Lahore) in 1954 and later received his masters in Islamic Studies from the University of Karachi in 1965. He came under the influence of Allama Iqbal and Maulana Maududi as a young student.
    Dr. Israr Ahmad wrote an extremely significant tract in 1967 in which he explained his basic thought that an Islamic Renaissance is possible only by revitalizing the Iman (true faith and certitude) among the Muslims, particularly their intelligentsia. The revitalization of Iman, in turn, is possible only by the propagation of the Qur’anic teachings and presenting the everlasting wisdom of the Book of Allah (SWT) in contemporary idiom and at the highest level of scholarship.
    For the last forty years or so, Dr. Israr Ahmad has been actively engaged not only in reviving the Qur’an-centered Islamic perennial philosophy and world-view but also reforming the society in a practical way with the ultimate objective of establishing a true Islamic State,

  46. for those who use to say Dr.Israr Ahmed an illeterate person, must get some knowledge of that personality. only someone with little knowledge can give such irresponsible statement. and for those who studied many tafseers and books of hadith must know that Dr. Israr Ahmed’s statement can be verified from all authentic books of tafseer. so plz don’t show yourself a literate person whereas you know nothing more than to use bit internet and abusing others.

  47. Javeria u r doing a great job by differetiating between right and wrong. One should’nt follow an orthodox approach in religious matter and shoul get to the bottom before making non sense statements. What I have read so far the refernces qouted by Dr. Israr Ahmed are authentic. He should not apologize for his statement as it was supported by strong references from Tafseer Ibn-e-Kasir and Tirmizi as well.

  48. Hi all, first of all i have to pay my rich tributes and sympathies to our dearest DR ISRAR AHMED. In my opinion, he is among the few scholars, having the actual knowledge of islam. His studies are so vast and he is really a school of thought. For those who use to say him “MULLAH” i recommend them to correct their knowledge first, then pass on any comments, on his lifetime sincere efforts and dedication to islam. His speeches and booklets on Hazrat ALI RA’s personality are enough to defend Dr Israr Ahmed. All these literatures and booklets i have studied so before the QTV statement. The dignity and love for Hazrat Ali RA is clearer than crystal over there in Dr Israr’s views. No explanation required. I request so called muslims, to learn english is not the standard of being literate, if it is…. then everyone in uk is native english speaker but not literate. So kindly first get some know how about that school of thought then pass on any comments. Most of all you are not the only followers of Hazrat Ali RA. We are also the equal lovers and followers. And the Hadith coated by Dr Sb. is the rawaet of Hazrat Ali by himself and is coated in minimum 17 authentic books of tafseer, including tafseer ibne Kaseer, tafseere Tibri, Muariful Quran, jamee Tirmzi and Sunin abi Dawood. May Allah show us the right path and courage to absorb truth. Ameen.

  49. We should be ashammed to talk like this about the Family of the Holy Prophit (s.a)
    Our Islam got nurishment in the Hands of Hazrat Abu Talib (a.s) and His Great Son Hazrat Ali (A.S).The whole Family of The holy Prophet (s.a) obeys the rules of the Hazrat Ibrahim (a.s).And I dont think that anyone of you can say that wine was not not forbidden by Hazrat Ibrahim.
    Y we are so jealous from the Khandan-e-Ahlabait.
    In Surah Ahzab Allah Taala says that Allah has planned to keep every nijas (rijs) away from the Ahlabait.

    Allah has every thing planned before the bigging of time and u say that Allah planned that during thr reveling of the Holy Quran then u does not know the meaning of Tauheed.
    You still say that the Holy Members of Khandan-e-Ahlabait had a Habbit of drinking.Just shame on those people who think like this.
    This propeganda is launched just to cover the non Islamic deed of other Suhabba which they had done before Islam.These Molvis are just targeting the Prophit’s Family just to decrease there status in the Minds of the Muslims.

    May Allah Guide you to the truth.

  50. 1) Many muslims do not accept Sahah-e-Sitta as sahih. So the authenticity is not absolute.

    Dr. Israr (la) does know about the fact. He does know that many people believe that Ali(as) is infallible.

    It is not a question of truth or falsity. Its a question of raising comments that hurt feelings of many.(Just compare the narrations by Dr. Israr(la), to those of the danish cartoonist, who does not believe in Islam).

    2) I am not going into debate whether Ali(as) was infallible or not (However, I would say that Muhammad(saww) raised and taught Ali(as) from very early childhood. Ali(as) was second to declare his faith on Muhammad(saww). His (Ali(as)’s) behavior must resemble very close to that of Muhammad(saww). Now could you even imagine (have any hadith in any of sahih’s) that (Nauzo-bi-Allah) Muhammad(saww) drank, even before it was prohibited. After all he was a human as well just like Ali(as).

  51. Assalam u alaikum,
    Javeria, that’s a wonderfull effort from your side… i’ve also searced those references in detail and found it exactly what you’ve mension….
    I think that the only mistake made by Dr. Israr is that he aplogize of his statement…. it’s a fact and there is nothing to aplogize in it… If you are on the right side than you should stick to it rather to step back…
    I don’t want to say anything about the personality of Dr. Israr Ahmed because i’ve also heard some strange thinge about him that makes him purisrar, but anyways, it’s not good to do Gheebat….
    As far as that incident was concerned… it can be completely proved through those referred statement…. and it’s my advice for those people who are using slang words for Dr. Israr that they should read those books and then realize the fact…
    Allah ham sab ko aqal-e-saleem ata farmay…Ameen!!!

  52. Dr israr’s statement was based on fabricated hadith through unreliable narrators which was condemn and criticized by all rejaali scholars.

    he must tender unconditional apology to muslim umaah for insulting,khulfa e rashideen.

  53. @ Ali

    Did you even read what i wrote or just saw the name of Dr. Israr and started your abuse!

    Dr. Israr is quoting from authentic books and Tafsirs and is not making up this hadith. Think with your mind before you start emitting filth with your tongue.

  54. @ Adnan

    JazakAllahu Khair. Any good that we are able to do is from Allah alone.

    @ Noman..
    right another sunni converted to Shia story…

    You are telling me to stop being blind and stop following the Mullahs. Have you yourself implemented this in your life?

    Our religion is not a book of History. Our deen is what is in the Quran and the Sunnah and it was completed in the life time of Prophet Muhammad saw. Events after that do NOT change Islam. Islam was completed by Rasool Allah and no one and no event can change its teachings and belief system.

    Some incidences and events of the past do not make up my belief system and I do not follow any personality or any Mullah. I only follow what is in the Quran and what is taught in the authentic Sahih narrations of Prophet Muhammad (saw).

    Do you even know the “AQAID” of the shias? It is not just mere conflicts of historical events but their doctrines and beliefs are totally different and deviated and deflect greatly from “Tawheed”.

    You want me to believe that Ali Radiallahu Anhuma was not a mortal not a human? He was an angel or something who never made any mistake? Please! Why is it so hard to accept that he was a human? It is human to err and to forget.

    Please read the book “An introduction to Shia Islam. The History and Doctrines of Twelver Shiasm.” by Moojan Momen.

    If you want to read an unbiased narration of the development of the Shiasm as a religion. It is written by an Irani and not any sunni Muslim.

    Here is the amazon link:

    Have you even read the Shia Hadith Books like Al Kafi, Usul e kafi, Bihar ul Anwar before you were so convinced of their truth? Do you even know that these books were written by unknown people years after the death of all your twelve shia imams. Do you know the details of their scholars like Kulaini and Mullah Baqar who fabricated the shia hadith books!

    do your research before you call other people’s beliefs as nonsense!

    and stop posting irrelevent comments not related to the post.They will not be moderated.


  56. No matter how much you ppl advocate for such ppl but the fact remains even if history is distorted, changed forcefully, incidents fabricated to let down the family of Prophet Muhammad (S A W). I think most of the ppl do not know abt anything abt the islamic history and contribution made by this family. Even though born in a sunni family, i became curious to find out way in the world are Shias considered Aliens in Islam ??? Well, after going through a lot of religious books (quranic tafseers), hadith complitations, islamic history, you know what, even a non-muslim would acknowledge that Allah Al-mighty has bestowed this Holy Family something which is unprecedented !!!

    I think rather than advocating Dr Purisrar, we should try to understand the basis of conflict which to me dates back to death of Prophet (SAW). Please do not, i repeat do not blindly follow someone, please save urself sometime and read our islamic history rather than following so-called Mullahs. I also had a chance to listen to Dr Sahib’s programme in Geo Tv’s “Jawab Daye”. Totally rubish, utter nonsense that was; most of his thoughts were outragious and unacceptable, his idealogy of islamic state and Khilafat was … i think you know what i would say.

  57. AoA Javeria,

    Simply awesome. You rocked again. Somtimes we get so touchy about religion that often forget that companions of Muhammad(saw) were humans and what Islam came out in “final” shape was actually an end product of 23 years of efforts by the Prophet(SAW).

    thanks for such a wonderful article. Jazakallah.

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